samedi 1 octobre 2011

Pays-Bas : le regard critique des immigrés turcs sur les immigrés marocains

Citations de figures de la communauté turque des Pays-Bas, interrogées par Kerem Öktem pour son rapport : "How Turks in the Netherlands see Moroccans" (30 juin 2010), dans le cadre du Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) :

"When you look at commerce, this is where the inward-looking structure also helps. Turks buy from Turks. They go to Turkish supermarkets and butchers and green grocers. Moroccans buy from Turks, but Turks only buy from Turks. You can observe how the Turkish shops started off as small corner shops and turned into full-blown supermarkets and then into chain stores.

For a long time, they have been put in the same category. Turkeys were not pleased by this conflation, they always insisted that they are not the same. You can tell a Moroccan by the way he or she dresses, especially in the first generation. Even though most Turks who came to Holland were are also of rural origin, they looked down at the Moroccans as uncouth. And even today, the general assumption is that you cannot trust Moroccans, you can’t do business with Moroccans, because they are not trustworthy. You also have to take into consideration that many Turks have this traditional anti-Arab bias. …. You will find hardly any cases of intermarriage. … But on the other level, there is a sense of solidarity. Moroccans will always use a few Turkish words and say abi or kardes (elder brother, or brother), they will say Salam-u aleykum, so there is also one level of a natural coalition (AA – IOT)." (Ahmet Azvural, du Conseil consultatif des Turcs des Pays-Bas, p. 20)

"The general idea was, I think, that Moroccans were considered dirty. As a child, our parents told us not to play with Moroccans. … What I found most striking is that in the Netherlands, you will find quite a number of Alevis and Sunnis intermarrying. Given that people here are more religious and conservative than in Turkey, this is rather impressive. Turks and Kurds intermarry also rather freely. But at least in my family and among my friends, I have never heard about a Turkish – Moroccan marriage. There are probably more Dutch-Turkish marriages (UU)." (Ugur Ungor, historien, p. 20-21)

"But they have a serious problem with their youth, because the social control mechanisms do not work. With the Turks, family control curbs the greatest excesses, there is more social control, there is also more economic solidarity. But with the Moroccans, the families have become dysfunctional. They let their young ones out on the streets, and there is a lot of violence and crime. That is probably the worst thing, which is happening to the Moroccans (CB – DV)." (Cevdet Bey, de la Diyanet, le département des Affaires religieuses de Turquie, p. 21)

"By all means, Moroccan society is very different … Above all, the profile of imams is very different. They lack any modern theological training. They have studied in old fashioned medreses, which have very ossified conceptions of the world. Khalil el-Moumni, the Moroccan imam who spoke so aggressively against gays, is a typical case of someone who studied in this type of medrese. His arguments and suggestions for punishment –to throw down gay people from the highest building in Amsterdam- have no grounds whatsoever in Islamic jurisprudence. But with his educational background, this is what happens.

Generally, the Moroccan imams have no sound religious education and unlike the Diyanet imams, they are not state employees. Often, they will have learnt the Qur’an by heart and maybe a bit of Arabic on top of their Berber language –especially if they have been educated here- and that’s enough to impress the congregation. This is probably why many of the Moroccans support education in the Netherlands. And this is why there are serious problems with the imams. There is quite a strong Arab Salafi influence among them (CD – DV)." (idem, p. 22)

"And this lack of community is a good breeding ground for radicalisation. There is no organised attempt to contain radical youth. Salafism is a serious issue among Moroccan youth. Among Turks, it is more or less non-existent.

But even more important than radicalisation is the problem of high crime rates. They are very high among Moroccan young men. This has to stop. But it won’t, because there is no organisation to take care of them, and the state has failed to deal with them. This is far from ideal (AD – MG)." (Ahmet Duran, du Milli Görüş, l'association islamique fondée par feu Necmettin Erbakan, p. 17)

Source :

Voir également : Aux Pays-Bas comme en Allemagne et ailleurs, les immigrés turcs ont un taux de criminalité significativement inférieur à celui des immigrés marocains

Etrange "déballage" de commentaires favorables aux immigrés turcs sur un article concernant l'immigration en Belgique

Les immigrés turcs : une criminalité faible